I was over on the MySpace punk rock forums, arguing with liberals, and some gal said “I hate Green Day. They’ve sold out. They’re so corporate. Every kid in America likes them now.”
I replied:
I think that Green Day are outstanding. Anyone who can write a great song has my vote, no matter if it’s punk rock, country or jazz.
I also love Rancid. The “Out Come the Wolves” album mainly….it’s got like 20 great songs on it. Most bands don’t write TWO great songs in their whole career.
I also worked with the engineer who did that album, he said the guys in the band are truly like brothers, and deeply care about each other. I was really happy to hear that for some reason.
Other than those two bands, I don’t pay much attention to much newish punk rock. What I have heard of recent punk and hardcore mostly sucks…..doesn’t have much spark or depth. And has little or no melody. Just a lot of testosterone and loud guitars…Bloodless….facile….All look and no ass.
Most of my favorite music either came out in the early 80s on Dischord Records or Alternative Tentacles, or is some demo pressed in a limited edition of 100, recorded on cassette in a garage somewhere like Akron…or a cave in Belarus.
What’s wrong with a band being popular? Does that make them suck? Or do you think they’ve changed somehow musically to accommodate/promote their popularity.
“Know Your Enemy” is a fantastic song. As good, or better, than anything ever written by Minor Threat, Dead Kennedys, Naked Raygun, The Clash or the Ramones. Or whatever unknown band is “hot” this week.
I don’t listen to the radio or watch MTV, so I don’t really have a sense of over-saturation. I’m not sick of them. Are you sick of them? Is that what you don’t like about them being popular?
Or is it that you liked them when they were indie, and felt like you had some “ownership” of them, that they were you’re little secret, and that got tainted or taken away by the mere fact of lots of kids in malls being into them.
When you like a band, don’t you wish them well? Don’t you want them to make enough money to not have to sleep on floors, to be able to not live in a shitbag apartment, to keep making music without breaking up because they’re starving?
Or are they only “pure” when they’re starving?
I’m trying to understand why a band being popular = bad in your mind (and a lot of people’s minds.)
Also, on a semi-related note: I always laugh at the irony of punk rockers (popular or unknown) who write songs complaining about how evil corporations are, and play them on guitars made by huge corporations, record on gear made by huge corporations, press CDs, a technology developed by huge corporations, spam the world via MySpace (owned by FOX, a huge corporation), and get in vans made by huge corporations and drive around to clubs singing their anti-corporate protest songs.
Michael W. Dean
I couldn’t agree more. I love hearing a band on the radio and thinking to myself that I was listening to those folks while they were struggling to get gigs at local bars. I don’t ever feel they sold out, I feel that they succeeded in an industry that makes it impossible to succeed. The only time I feel a musician sells out is when they change their sound to become popular. I see this a lot in Texas country music. A band will have a great, unique sound, but will start playing music that sounds like Nashville top 40 so they can try to get signed. At that point, their music is a business decision, and they are no longer in it for the music. They are only out for money and fame.
Do you know that feeling you get when you hear a song and somehow you know that it is speaking to you? You know, somehow there’s a connection?
Well, that doesn’t happen to me. The thought of rehashing other folks emotional drivel for my own pleasure makes my skin crawl. I guess I just don’t care how other people feel, unless I’m involved with those people.
Unfortunately, the human voice is my favorite instrument. Consequently, I’m relegated to listening to quite a bit of instrumental or foreign shit that I can’t interpret.
Having said that, Green Day fucking kicks ass. I don’t give a shit what they have to say…but my body freaking rocks out when I’ve got them cranked.
Coupla things…
First, the consummate positive statement of punks wanting success for the right reasons, is The Ramones’ We Want the Airwaves. No apologies there for them wanting to be popular, no talk of sell out, etc.
Second… I guess I’m one of those “Green Day not punk” guys, though it has to do with their sound not their success. The stuff I’ve heard just doesn’t have the edge that I look for in hardcore. Maybe I really mean “not hardcore”. I think I’ve gotten less melodic and sing-songy as I’ve gotten old.
Third…. It’s tough when your favorite band has a corrupt world view. Like, I still like Gang of Four and they’re outright communists. But.. totally unique sound and the “Damaged Goods” riff is still my ringtone.
Fourth… Like I’ve said to Michael in email, a lot of punk picked up and moved over into the metal scene. Some early punk bands crossed that line early on like Black Flag. Now there are some really cool metalcore bands out there with outright interesting world views, like Hatebreed, or Converge. But, not all punk is hardcore, and their stuff isn’t going to be every punker’s cup of tea for sure.
Have fun and great blog…
Thanks Pasha!
MWD
As a musician I do not begrudge any band’s success, so long as it doesn’t come at the expense of their integrity. I don’t consider Green Day to be sellouts, but I do think that their music has lost it’s edge over the years… either that or times have just changed so much and what was once edgy is now commonplace.
I didn’t like Green Day UNTIL they were huge.
I actually lived in the Bay Area and was going to shows when Green Day were indie, but never bothered to go see them. I heard some of their Lookout! stuff on KUSF, and didn’t really love it.
I kinda liked them a few records back, after they were already well into playing stadiums. But the song “Know your enemy” really blew me away.
I don’t have that record, just that song. I think it’s one of the most perfect punk rock songs, nay, one of the most perfect SONGS ever written.
MWD
MWD – well I won’t piss on Green Day quite as heavily in that case; I respect your taste that much…
Thanks!
Really though, they’re just an example. I’ve heard people bitching about “bands sucking because they’re popular” since I first heard the Sex Pistols in 1978.
MWD
Meh, I like a couple of their latter-day songs but I was a big fan of Kerplunk! and Dookie. Great albums. They kind of lost me with Nimrod, though, it was too mellow. I hate bands that mellow and call it ‘maturing’. Fuck you. I call it getting old and boring.
“Fuck you. I call it getting old and boring.”
It’ll happen to you! It happens to everyone!
MWD
Personally, I love Green Day. I think American Idiot is their masterpiece. Although, I was a little disappointed with 21st Century Breakdown.
Matt, there is nothing wrong with a band maturing with their music. No maturing means the same music over and over again. Bon Jovi has been writing the same song for 25 years. They have not matured. Yet, Beatles started out as a teeny-bopper band with songs like “I Wanna Hold Your Hand” and then went on to make albums like Sgt. Pepper, Abbey Road and The White Album. That’s maturity. One should grow as an artist, not remain stagnant.
Matt….what TS said.
MWD
The Black Crow’s backed out of touring with ZZ Top on “princable’. They were against having a corperate sponcer (Budweiser) They said the did’nt want to SELL OUT. You dont here much from them anymore! Ha! what a bunch a fuckin idgits.
That sellout argument has been said for over 17 years, it’s so boring and outdated. Green Day remained indie for over 6 years (before singing with Reprise) and look where it got them! nowhere. How they lived was disgusting, sleeping in trailers and squatting at other people houses, that’s not a life. They seen a HUGH career opportunity and they took it, wouldn’t any sane person refuse a million dollars?
They may not sound “punk” these days, but they haven’t forgotten who they truly are, they are still Punks at heart. Everyone has to grow up, you can’t have the Punk attitude forever or you will end up a bitter old man. Listen to Green Days “The Grouch” you will see what I mean.
As someone who lived in Brussels when the Pistols and Gen X broke out thenmoving back to DC at 15 to experience Dischord-Hardcore birth I can tell you what selling out means. Why hate Green Day. The reason is clear. Corporations create what the masses listen.to and like. You can make a very good living without selling your soil to the evil capitalist who entrench songs into this brand conscious world. Green Day don’t have one original thought. They took the soul of Punk and had corporate America package it. They make money ripping people off. In any event, it looks like the DIY punks may have the last laugh. Corporate Rock is dead.