The question of “what’s the magic bullet for self-defense” is debated endlessly on all sorts of sites, but these tests show why I carry a big-ass unwieldy revolver with six shots of .357 magnum rather than smaller 9mm semi-auto that holds 17 shots.
I used to carry a 9mm. It’s much easier to carry, concealed or open, and doesn’t weigh as much as the hog leg revolver. But the ability of .357 to punch through stuff is unquestionable.
(click on each photo to see it big)
Guns used in test: .357: Ruger GP-100 (six-inch barrel model- I picked the longer barrel for extra power and accuracy):
9mm: Springfield XD:
Targets: steel plates, 3/32 of an inch thick (between 1/8″ and 1/16″ thick):
Shooting distance: 11 yards (33 feet.) Targets were not clamped down and were allowed to fall when hit.
AMMO: 9mm: Winchester 9mm Luger, 115 gr. FMJ. .357: Hornady, 140 gr. JHP
RESULTS:
Hole is from .357 mag. Dents are from 9mm:
CONCLUSION: If you’re a good shot, and willing to deal with the extra weight and learn to use speedloaders quickly, a big .357 hog leg is probably a better carry gun for the Rocky Mountains than a small .9mm with more rounds. At least in winter. I have a friend here in Wyoming who says “9mm before Labor Day, .40 after Labor Day.”
I know there’s the whole argument of “penetration vs. expansion”, but JHP .357 expands once in. My point is it’s not going to be slowed down by heavy clothing. And .357 is the smallest caliber that can cause remote wounding by Hydrostatic Shock.
We have four-legged beasts here that can kill you, like cougars and bears. I’d rather face one with .357 than with 9mm.
From the FBI’s notes on the 10 mm:
“The fear of over-penetration is a misconception, which was created back when law enforcement was trying to overcome misinformed public resistance to the use of hollowpoint ammunition. In the process, we began to believe it ourselves. First, our lawyers are unaware of any successful legal action resulting from the injury of a bystander due to a round over-penetrating the subject. We are aware of numerous incidents of Agents/officers being killed because their round did not penetrate enough (Grogan and Dove, for example). Further, if you examine shooting statistics you will see that officers hit the subject somewhere around 20-30% of the time. Thus 70-80% of shots fired never hit their intended target, and nobody ever worries about them – only the ones that might “over-penetrate” the bad guy. Third, as our testing shows, even the most frangible bullets designed specifically for shallow penetration will plug up when striking wood or wallboard and then penetrate like full metal jacket ammunition. We are aware of successful legal actions where an innocent party has been struck by a shot passing through a wall, but as we have proven, ALL of them will do that.”
And from
http://www.lesjones.com/posts/003216.shtml :
“Grogan and Dove were the two FBI agents killed in the 1986 Miami shootout with a pair of bank robbers named Platt and Matix. Five other agents were wounded. Matix fired only one shot, which missed. Platt did all of the rest of the fighting against the FBI agents and arriving Metro-Dade police officers. He soaked up numerous bullet wounds, including several rounds of 12 gauge 00 buckshot that hit his legs as he wriggled out of a wrecked car, and one 9 mm hollowpoint round that entered through his arm early in the fight and stopped just short of his heart. Platt was pretty much everyone’s worst nightmare – ex-military, well-practiced, and unrelenting. “As a result of ammunition failures in Miami, the FBI undertook a program of extensive ammunition testing. The FBI concluded that a minimum of 12 inches of penetration in ballistic gelatin was necessary for reliable incapacitation, and “18 inches is better.”
ALSO: On a note related to self-defense, but not related to the above tests, I’ve added an aftermarket front sight, fiber optic HiViz brand. Really helps find your target in low light:
Tags: 9mm vs .357 magnum, best carry gun, ccw, chicago, hiviz sights, Ruger GP-100, self-defense, semi-auto, XD 9mm
I reposted this on OpenCarry.org:
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=40263&forum_id=5&jump_to=690503
and there’s a lot of interesting conversation, pro and con…. 9mm users defending that, and bigger caliber users defending their choice.
MWD
I guess I’m the odd one out, I still carry a .45 1911, and I sometimes wonder if I’m the only one that still does.
I do like the .357 it’s a perfectly balanced round for self defense, that just my opinion, of course, but I’ll stick with my 1911, only because I’ve shot it for so many years that it feels natural to me.
I also prefer the government model 45. Did you try .357 Auto, though? That might change your mind on the size/weight thing. It’s preferred by many in law enforcement, has most of the advantages of .357 Mag and none of the disadvantages of 9mm.
.357 auto rounds are really expensive, and I like to practice a lot with what I carry.
Also, those guns tend to jam.
MWD
Lowglow, my buddy who said the thing about “.40 after Labor Day” came over for dinner tonight and he was carrying a 45 1911!
My friend Mac up north near Devil’s Tower carries one too.
MWD
not to hijack this or anything, but I do have a question. Talking about .357’s yesterday with my father, he said how they can also shoot .38 specials. But there’s a .023 caliber difference between to two. So how does that work?
I dont’ know, but it works. I do it all the time for practice. (.38s are much cheaper.)
MWD
JD, the 38 Special is not a true .380″ bullet. It uses the same .358″ bullet as the .357 Mag. The number in front of the cartridge name is rarely the exact bullet diameter. The classic 30.06 uses .308″ bullets, and the classic 270 Winchester actually uses .277″ bullets.
A .357 handgun will shoot .38 Special loads. The .357 was created by taking the .38 Special and making the brass slightly longer and upping the power level. The only reason they made it longer is so that a .357 cartridge can’t fit in a .38 Special chamber. The 44 mag is the same way. It is a slightly longer and more powerful 44 Special.
Must be something about dudes named “Justin”, we’re all know it alls, LOL. I was gonna say the same thing but you beat me to it.
And just for the record, I carry a 1911, and probably always will. I’m not a cop, therefore I have no protection whatsoever if one of my rounds over penetrates a target. I’ll go to jail if that happens or else have to deal with the fact that I killed a family member if the battle in question happens in my home and a bullet penetrates a wall and hits someone. Tests by the US Army a hundred years ago, and since, concluded that a man hit by a .45 ACP round would, in pretty much all circumstances, go down. He might get back up, but if he was hit, he was GOING to go down. Not only that, but a .45 hollow point is going to impart a LOT of energy on its target. If it does over penetrate, there’s not going to be a lot of oomph left to do damage on the other side. Add that to the fact that the 1911 design has been around for more than 100 years and has proven its safety and reliability not only in police service, but also in the roughest and toughest combat environments on the planet in two world wars and countless smaller skirmishes, and any other semi auto is a compromise IMHO. No other hand gun that I am aware of holds anything close to the service record of the 1911.
Also, if you’re carrying a .357 for bears, especially grizzlies, be sure and count your shots. That way you can save one to put yourself out of your misery after he’s done chewing on you, LOL. That’s the advice given to me by an Alaskan hunting guide, and believe me, he knows what he’s talking about.
My dad’s a big .357 fan, and I definitely dig their accuracy, but for a carry gun I find them a bit too cumbersome. Deer hunting? Sure. Competition? Sure. Strapped to my leg all day walking around town? No thank you, LOL. Just my opinion.
Justin
@ Justin (not West). The thing about .357’s is pretty true. though if you’re like me and that’s the largest size you have, it beats having nothing. But I prefer to carry my Mossberg 12 Gauge when in bear country
Thanks for the topic, the 9mm vs. .357 magnum. Gives me plenty to consider, as usual. I am looking to add to my home defensive firearms. I have a S&W .357 mag. model 65 six shot revolver and a Rem. 870 Express 12 gauge. I find the price of shooting the 357 magnums way to expensive so I shoot the 38 plus’ but it’s just not the same, close but not quite. (my wife likes the lesser recoil of a straight 38. Under duress with adrenaline flowing near maximum she won’t will notice the difference ??) I have been leaning towards a 1911. My question is when folks talk about a 1911 do they mean a S&W 1911 or could it be any 1911 style ? Just wondering what you all think?) I’ve considered the Glock’s. Also I think about the .357 in a rifle. Sure wish I had a couple three thousand to spend ….
Thanks,
Dan
Howdy Dan!
1911 means 1911 style.
By the way: the original 1911 wasn’t S&W, it was a Colt:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol
Check out this:
http://www.libertarianpunk.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/YellowStoneMay14-2010-178.jpg
and this:
http://www.libertarianpunk.com/2010/05/yellowstone-bison-jam-2010-part-one-of-three/
MWD
“my wife likes the lesser recoil of a straight 38. Under duress with adrenaline flowing near maximum she won’t will notice the difference ??”
yes, true, from all I’ve heard.
My usual carry pistol these days is a .38 snub (or two of them) with +P:
http://www.libertarianpunk.com/2010/04/the-glory-of-the-38-special-snub-nose-revolver/
MWD
Thanks for the topic, the 9mm vs. .357 magnum. Gives me plenty to consider and think about, as usual. My question is when folks talk about a 1911 do they mean a S&W 1911 or could it be any 1911 style ? Just wondering what you all think? I am looking to add to my home defensive firearms. I have a S&W .357 mag. model 65 six shot revolver and a Rem. 870 Express 12 gauge. I find the price of shooting the 357 magnums way to expensive so I shoot the 38+P (read less expensive) but it’s just not the same, close but not quite.
Thanks,
Dan
My apologies for my edited re-post. Guess I am a bit tired lately ….
Dan
Yes, Colt of course. Thanks MichaelWDean-!! I even knew that at least in multi-choice format. Also it might help for ME to read the posts before blundering in for the day. Again my apologies. I will take a look at the links you sent.
DanT